The best couplet ever written......
  • slugbelch January 2013
    Hello all, my first contribution to this forum and I hope it may be of interest to those of you politically minded Roger fans......
    First of all I should say that I am English, have always lived here, and am reasonably proud to be so. I first saw the Floyd in '74 when I was 12, at the Empire Pool Wembley (15th November). Even at this age I had already seen a few bands (Humble Pie, Uriah Heep etc.) we were spoilt for choice in London back then. Anyway, I almost immediately became totally obsessed with them, both music and lyrics, and I have no doubt that I was influenced by Roger Waters view of life in England ('hanging on in quiet desperation' etc.) and life in general.
    Unlike Roger I grew up in a pretty poor East London family although (like him & Syd Barrett) both me and my brother managed to 'qualify' for Grammar school here. Anyway, what became apparent to me very early on was the completely unfair way in which the quality of education avalaible to each individual was controlled almost completely by the class system here in England. Added to this the opportunities available to non fee paying school leavers (like us) and fee paying school leavers were poles apart. You only have to look at anyone in a high powered job here like politicians, BBC broadcasters and most other journalists, actors, top civil servants, top army ranks etc. and it becomes totally clear that at least 80 percent of these people are from over privileged backgrounds. For me, and I'm certain millions of other English people it is a totally sickening situation where money and old empire building well connected families are having such a wonderful time (as did their predecessors) while the vast percentage of the working class here struggle...........
    Which (from an English point of view) leads me to the best couplet ever written by an Englishman (and for my money anyone else for that matter)

    'Forward he cried from the rear, and the front rank died'......... It just says it all...........

    So simple and so perfect......

    However, at the risk of being contentious here, I know for certain that Roger Waters politically was much more left wing than the other members and so to this end, in my old age, I would like to know if he, like some other well known millionaires (eg. Paul McCartney) stood by his principles and sent his own children to non fee paying schools?.......I really hope so, in view of the lyrics he has written over the years...... The 'if you can't beat them join them' reasoning here just continues to shit on those less lucky through birth or background or whatever...

    Politicians here are famous for this con of telling the public that state funded schools are good enough and yet sending their own to fee paying schools which provide an unfair advantage over the 'front rank' in real life........

    Lastly, my apologies to readers from other countries who may not understand the Royal/Political/Class system here which I'm referring to..

    Thanks for reading
  • C4mbritain January 2013
    I don't know Slug and I hope he hasn't sent his kids to private schools.However sometimes it might be quite good to have some of our people infiltrate their ranks so to speak.There have been some genuine left wingers that have went to Cambridge or Oxford.I think Will Searle is one of them.Always enjoy what he says when he manages to get on question time etc and it makes me smile.It's probably because he has a posh accent that he has any chance of getting on because normally we can't get on the media anywhere and everyone slags us off with their lies while we have no right to reply.

    However, I'd rather no one went to their private schools or elitist Universities, because it's not just at school the discrimination happens.I'm a Graduate in Computing and I did it through an ordinary University and came out into the 2nd Tory recession and it made my degree worthless.

    You can also get turned down because you are on the political black list.I'm sure that happened to me too.So as they infiltrate and control our tactics.The main fault with the left wing is we don't discus new tactical ideas and stick to the old tactics of just demos or paper sales and they've infiltrated I'm sure the leadership of some left wing organizations in this country to make sure we don't try any new more successful ideas.

    That's why I haven't been involved in any revolutionary group for a while because I believe it's all about the media.If we can get on their media more and counteract their lies then they won't be able to control the masses and keep them on side like they've done.So may sometimes be good for us to infiltrate them too so we get into high flying jobs where we can and by pass their political blacklists to maybe screw their networks up a bit or find more dirt on them as though we don't have enough already.

    The trick is getting the public to know about their worst nastiest deeds of course.Because their news read by their conformist idiots and I'm sure the major stories at least are controlled and watched over by the same intelligence services that infiltrate and control our group's tactics only tells the public what the super rich real rulers want them to hear and they never tell them the truth about the dirtiest things they get up to.Or that our people were murdered by Stalin etc.So might be good to infiltrate them and screw them over instead.

    However I would far rather no one goes to their schools or universities or has any truck with their networks.NIce to see someone on here that really gets how this system works and quite a few others here seem to really get it too, which is great.

    No one be disheartened though.The tide is turning as Roger said, and it really is beginning to turn now.I've noticed left wingers like myself and others getting thumbs ups on non Waters message boards elsewhere when all; we ever used to get was abuse from the sheep who had believed the lies and brainwashing to keep them on side in the media the Super rich rulers own.

    There's a lot of others beginning to stop turning a blind eye to what's really going on and they know that the major problem with the economies struggling to recover is Tax Avoidance and they know the amount the super rich owners owe is far bigger than any other problem their system has and they know that they are picking on the weakest IE the poorest and sickest to pay for it to help them further avoid more tax.

    And it looks like we're going to have Poll Tax 2 soon at least that's what we'll call it on the banners with pictures reminding people how nasty Thatcher was and how nasty they all are and that the rich really control most of the public (that are beginning to turn) and the politicians like puppets.

    Their Tax Avoidance and picking on the poorest/sickest and then there will be these Poll Tax 2 marches, they really are beginning to dig their own grave as Marx always said they would do and their beginning to force the public to rebel.

    How long it will take I don't know.But it's beginning to happen and it can't happen soon enough for me.
  • C4mbritain February 2013
    You miss the point Albert. Roger isn't going to save us, it's us who will save our selves. He's only been trying to educate the maj as to what's really been going on all these years.He's tried to keep increasing the number of sheep who start to see it over the years, as I have done with what I've done politically too.

    You know the phrase "Capitalism will be it's own grave digger" don't you that means basically that eventually the selfish rich rulers will treat the sheep so badly that they'll be forced to rebel and that's what's beginning to happen.

    So that's why Roger is becoming more open about his overall anti system view.Look at this it shows what his overall view is.

    He clearly says it's not a democracy and clearly wants a revolution but as his mate says so Roger has told us

    "he said you're going to have to wait Roger till that sewer explodes with their greed till eventually the public rise up"

      so he's obviously been as frustrated as the rest of us on the left wondering how long it will take the sheep to realise what's going on and to stop being mugs and start to fight back

     but he can see them starting to see what's going on so is becoming more open with his anti system view as are the rest as we can all see it's time to start being more open and get the f out of power at last.

    and why I and others think it's time to be more open too.In the past he and a lot of us on the left have had to be careful what we said and to whom because the sheep would in the main just abuse us because the rich had trained them to do so through their media.

    Nowadays I get thumbs up a lot on other sites for what I say as do others when previously almost all we ever got was abuse.So Roger and the rest of us have been educating the masses over the years and getting them to see how the system works and for who.

    And now that their tax avoidance is causing such a prob at same time as they attack the poor and sick the sheep are beginning to listen to us and can see what we've said has been true all along.
  • C4mbritain February 2013
    You seem to have a low opinion of him albert although you say you love him. Someone doesn't normally say someone talks self opinionated bullsh*t about someone they love.

    He doesn't talk bullsh*t by the way anyway..I'm genuinely not wound up, just stating a fact that he doesn't that's all.

    I'm surprirised if anyone thinks that such ideas as shown in the video will work better in America but of course it's one of the best places to try to push for the next revolutions first.

    Not likely just good place to have one of the first if we could cos one of the richest countries of course.

    And cos their super rich rulers really do dictate and dominate the rest of the world although of course the Super Rich are global.

    And dictate across all national boundaries but it'd be good if we could waken more of the public in that country first.

    And of course he doesn't have power here.I'm sure Rupert Murdoch and Sir Philip Green to name just two.

    Not the richest of course I can't remember their names at the moment don't really like what Roger says about things so they're not gonna give him much time well none at all in Murdoch's press etc

    And I'm sure the maj of the conformist MPs don't like his views or are too scared to get involved in them as they conform to their super rich puppetmasters.

    Just thinking about getting richer themselves or keeping in their MP jobs,so of course he doesn't have power.

    But like I already said he's not trying to save anyone and he doesn't have to have the power, all he's doing as I've done whenever I talk politics which isn't all the time.

    Is just to educate the maj who've been brainwashed and traind to fit in by the Rich. so that eventually enough of them will see what's happening waken up.

    And stop being mugs anymore and rebel.
  • C4mbritain February 2013
    Ah some people will never get it.Roger has not always been rich.He had these same opinions when he was poor.If I thought he was a hypocrite which so many portray him to be then I wouldn't bother going to the gigs.
  • C4mbritain February 2013
    I was only referring to you saying that Roger didn't understand what it was like for people in the real world as he had a bath full of money.

    So thought you may have thought that Roger was always rich and couldn't understand what it is like for real people.Of course it doesn't make a difference to me if people who I go to see in a group were born rich or poor.

    I either go just to see them for their music and fun or if there are any politics it isn't if they are rich that influences whether I go or not.

    Its whether they are honest or not and whether they are on the side of the super rich unelected rulers or not.
  • C4mbritain February 2013
    He has been poor FACT. It would've been far easier for him to write non political songs so he didn't have to keep explaining them.His mother did bring him and his two brithers up on a single income.Of course they weren't rich.

    He has also said in that interview if you bothered to listen to it properly that he was living on 7 £ a week for years when Floyd were getting things going.Is £7 a week rich even though a £ was worth morev then I reckon he was on about £35 a week for years nwhile working hard getting the band going.Is that rich ?

    Though I suppose that's all BS too as you said he was talking.Sorry Cymb I know I said I wouldn't respond to Albert but you have,no offense, and what he has just said is very disrespectful to Roger and most left wingers too.

    His mother was a Communist, that means a true Communist IE those that were murdered by Stalin and the Soviet Union and she went abroad to Germany to fight the Nazis as a Communist a true Communist not the lies that the Super Rich owned Capitalist media tell you.

    These things deserve respect not abuse.I myself don't give to charity.So I may in your eyes,Albert, be even more of a hypocritre than Roger.

    I used to give to charity but don't now as I feel that is letting Governments and the real rulers the Super Rich off the hook so I prefer to keep pressure on them to pay for things and to show up what they are like and what is going on more.

    + do you really think that Roger donating a few million out of his pocket is going to change anything.I';m sure he knows that won't change anything.It's tiny co0mpared to to the vast amounbt of money billions maybe now trillions that the Super Rich rulers have robbed from us all in the amount of tax they avoid.

    The only thing that really makes a difference is educating the sheep until enough of them wake up and see what's been going on all along and when the balance tips when enough of them see what's always been going on then that's when major change in who runs the world and for what purpose things are run will happen.

    Sorry Cymb I promise now I won't ever say anything back to Albert, but you replied to him, no offense and what he said is very disrespectful and also can lead to some people thinking all left wingers are hypocrites.We are not.

    It's just a simple fact that the amount of money we have won't make any difference compared to the 97% of the world's wealth that the Super Rich global elite own and to the massive amount of money billions probably trillions now they have stolen from national economies and from ordinary tax payers.
  • C4mbritain February 2013
    I am educated I have a degree in Computing.And ffs suckin Cymbs dick of course I wasn't.

    And I assure you I am not a sheep in any way.I have been turned down for jobs because I am on a political black list.There is one and I'm sure I have been.

    I also could never conform and accept my families values (they were Tories) and always had to stay true to my natural beliefs.I genuinely worked out myself at a very young age that it was all a con, that it was the Super Rich who ran everything and that it wasn't a Democracy.

    I genuinely refused to go and see the Queen when my mother and sister wanted me to go and see her when she visited my town when I was 10.

    And because I was such a left winger and refused to accept the lies about Democracy and the brain washing.some teachers loved me for it that I was able to ask questions and didn't just accept what I was told.

    1 teacher even tried to get me to sleep with her at a party she organised for 6th formers a year after we'd left high school properly.That's cos she fancied me because I asked questions in class before I was legal to have sex and because I didn't juts accept what I was told.

    And because I'm such a left winger and cos my dad was a racist at the same time as I worked as a publicity secretary for Anti Apartheid and because they were Tories they avoided talking to me all the time growing up and my dad attacked me every day after getting home from school and they treated me like shit every day when I grew up with them yet I just couldn't ever change my views cos I have a big heart and I couldn't help seeing through the lies when it would have been much easier to fit in and conform then  they;d have talked to me more and my father wouldn't have attacked me every day till I was 18 and thrust my hands into his shoulders (avoiding punching him) to send him flying across the room.How is that in anyway like a sheep ?
  • C4mbritain February 2013
    Thanks Cymb and I'm sorry I've just responded to him before I saw you saying you've reported him when I said I wouldn't reply to him again.And no I'[m not suckin cymbs dick if you read this Albert.And I hope he reads everything I said about my life above cos it's all true and proves in no way am I a sheep.
  • C4mbritain February 2013
    Albert you really need to think about your education. Just because he was in Surrey doesn't mean his family was rich.Of course I know that Surrey is predominantly rich but that doesn't mean that everywhere there is rich.

    I hope you've read the honest history about myself above.That shows I'm not a sheep.Also I am similar to Roger in that my family were middle class but because I am left wing and wouldn't conform they've never given me anything and I also never saw either of my grandfathers.

    1 had died before I was born and the other had split from his wife years earlier so never saw him either and I lost both my grandmothers within a week of each other when I was 10.

    not long after I avoided going to see the Queen so I have a lot of similarities to Roger in that I never had some family members and some died when I was young

    lot missing that way and in no way am I a conformist.I promise that's the last fight back from me but insisting that I am a sheep and that Roger is lying about his feelings are a disgrace.
  • C4mbritain February 2013
    I'm part of the Wall ffs I'm intelligent I worked out myself at very young age we were being lied to.That the Super Rich ranb everything and that it wasn't a DEmocracy.I used to run over inbto the fields as a kid to escape the stupidity of the world for a bit and I got so much abuse from my fam,ily because I wouldn't conform and be a good little Tory like them.I've been trapped by the Wall and not been able to be totally free because of the world I am forced to live in where most believe all the lies and abuse anyone different.To say I am part of The Wall is a disgrace.I am one of those who is ourside the wall.IE as in the final part of "The Wall" OUtside The Wall, I'm one of those Outside The Wall although emotoinonally I have alweays felt trapped inside the wall of the false beliefs and liues put outy and belived by so many sheep which traps freedom of exprssion and of course you are only as free physically as the amounty of monbey you have.This may be a wind up I know.But I think I am ewntitled to not take that kind of crap, saying I'm a sheep when I've told him my upbringing and my feelings make it obviopus I have always been trapped by the sheeps stupidity that the world is this way although I am also ouside the wall waiting for the idiots to see tye've always been held back and treated like mugs and waiting for them to knock down the wall.Sorry I genuinely won't respond again but I'[m sure you Cymb and others can understand my anger at Albert and why it was hard to not fight back against such abusive in his words BS
  • C4mbritain February 2013
    Thankyou Cymb. I didn't have a choiice really.I just felt the way I did from birth I think.I like having fun too.

    I genuinely wish I hadn't had to fight all the stupidity of the world and the sheep around me all my life.But I'm genuinely very soft hearted and I could see through their lies from a very early age.

    + cos I'm soft hearted too I couldn't fit in so I'd have an easier life.So I had no choice but to go through what I did really.

    + used to think and say sometimes (sometimes while grapsing my hair in frustration, what do I do ? Do I switch my brain off or something.Cos that's the only way I can not see what's really happening and the only way I can fit in.Or words very similar to those anyway.)

    I genuinely thought that to myself and sometimes said it aloud to others while grasping my hair as I grew up.+ cos I was soft hearted

    + bright (others have told me I am, I'm just proving a point I'm not big headed I promise,

    + I lack in confidence in some other ways) I had no choice but to see what was going on and i couldn't accept it because that would be letting down others abused by the rich and their system.

    I'm through it all now and I'm sorry if I've upset anyone by telling them what's happened to me.But to say I was part of it all when I was persecuted for not being part of it is a disgrace.

    N0 one needs to say I didn't upset them.I know I probably didn't so it's ok no need to reply saying I didn't.

    Anyway hope I didn't and take care everyone.I'm ok.

    I'm through all that now but I've always known who really runs the show and always known this is not a democracy so certainly never been one of the people who keeps people trapped and keeps it all going for them so never been part of their f wall.

    Let's move on now and hope evryone's ok after reading Albert and my exchange LOL that's putting it a bit more polite than it really was isn't it ?
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