Roger Goes to the Circus (aka Politics and All) or Momentary Lapses of Reason
  • StrayDogStrayDog June 2013
    @waveproject

    Something strange still seems to be happening on the tech side. But now I got the design of your last post and the meaning it was supposed to convey from the copy in my email. That “copy/pasted” stuff was the quote from Roger? Sorry, I missed the point - actually I read the page some time ago, but obviously forgot the exact contents. And your intention was to comment on the flaws of those statements? As well as the integrity of the person who delivered them? Yeah, everything is in its place now - because I was wondering why you seemed to go so astray (that “Perhaps I should stop now …” phrase was particularly disgraceful).    




  •  finanlly, it seems to work now. you are quite right, dude. i think it´s important now to take such stuff as well because finally you can "rever " to it or better said you can´t anymore....



    The following quoting is the last
    part of roger´ s statement from ”the fallen loved ones” of his website.



    “There is another wall between us
    and the reality of our lives.
    This wall is called the media. This wall
    is a tool that is used to divert us from inconvenient truths. Perhaps I should stop now before I alienate
    anybody.”

    I must say that if a prominent
    person like you , roger, having such background and awareness about “inconvenient truths”
    and reality( which you proved in the lyrics of your music), publicly here
    speaks out the FACT OF MANIPULATION, you also have to be aware of the
    consequences for your credibility for the people WHO TRUST IN YOU.


    In fact you” alienate anybody”! not
    those who you mean but ALL women and men who refered  to your statement! There is such a big contradiction
    between it and the interview mentioned and it´s really frightening how clearly
    leaks through  the hunch of the REAL
    person behind those nice words.



  • StrayDogStrayDog June 2013
    To tell the truth, if one looks more closely at Roger’s statements and actions, then the inconsistency of both these things indeed appears glaring. While he seems to be so anxious about undertaking steps aimed at fighting Israeli Zionists (mostly through writing letters to Alicia Keys), not only does Roger in reality do nothing about much more dangerous US ruling elites and their much greater evils, but he, plain and simple, supports re-electing those of them with a long list of verified crimes which caused many thousands of innocent deaths (we are talking about the country Mr. Waters actually lives in). Nor did he find it necessary to open his mouth at least once when the British SAS (the country of Mr. Waters’ citizenship) was participating in the hideous butchery in Libya, for instance. Which is simply beyond understanding.

    And it gets even worse if we’d try to implement a more general approach. Because, for some unknown reasons, Roger prefers to ignore the fact that we’ve by no means  left any of those horrible things behind. The above examples, as well as countless other ones, are not exceptions. They are the rule. War becomes permanent precisely in an Orwellian sense of this term. Moreover, just like this great thinker quite justly pointed out somewhat half a century ago: “In our own day they [the ruling groups] are not fighting against one another at all. The war is waged by each ruling group against its own subjects, and the object of the war is not to make or prevent conquests of territory, but to keep the structure of society intact.” These “subjects” are us.

    So the question remains - what is it all about? What is the deal with you, Roger? Or was it just Pink who put himself on trial? Which led to tearing down some walls? Not you? And are you yourself indeed becoming comfortably numb behind those of your own - which are evidently still very much there? Or is it comfortably dumb? Or could it be the worst assumption of all? And you are simply nothing more than just another dead hypocrite? Not so different at all from those you tend to leisurely point your finger at from time to time?

    As Mr. Beckett would put it: “Eh Roger?”.


  • StrayDogStrayDog June 2013
    Let’s picture this situation. Roger is walking down a dangerous side street and approached by a couple of thugs. Then they embark upon highly objectionable behaviour meant to inflict some damage on Roger’s formidable body, deliver a serious blow to his formidable ego, and deprive his wallet of its formidable contents. Roger is trying to defend all three precious items but it’s not that easy. At this difficult moment some of his friends (because, as it turns out, Roger has a lot of friends in Turkey too) sends him a message: “Roger, you’re doing the right thing. You will be just fine. I’m right there with you … in spirit”. Or better still - this thoroughly heartrending note appears on the friend’s site. It would certainly make a world of difference to Roger fighting in the street. And we all need more such friends.

    So, while Roger’s spirit seems to be engaged in a battle with Turkish autocratic religious zealots, and his mind preoccupied with opposing Zionist ones, let’s take a look at what is going on at home - the place where such a trivial part of Roger as his body might be dwelling at the moment. Here is a seriously incomplete list of the Orwellian measures, which have been imposed not somewhere, but right outside Roger’s front door by those crooks in power since 2001 without any actual opposition offered by the wilfully ignorant and acquiescent masses - himself included:

    - Warrantless domestic surveillance;

    - The ability to search telephone calls, emails, financial matters especially involving foreign individuals, and medical records for people who are “suspected” of endangering the country;

    - Colour coded risk levels designed to keep citizens fearful of non-existent terrorists;

    - Pre-emptive invasion of foreign countries;

    - Committing U.S. forces to war without a declaration of war by Congress as mandated in the U.S. Constitution;

    - Assassination of people on presidential kill lists;

    - Extermination of “suspected” enemies by predator drones;

    - Camera systems monitoring the movements of Americans in cites and streets across the United States;

    - Torture of detainees in camps outside of the United States;

    - The authority to indefinitely detain American citizens without trial;

    - Executive orders giving the President the ability to unilaterally disregard the U.S. Constitution and take control of private industries;

    - Use of drones to monitor the activities of American citizens;

    - Allowing the very bankers that destroyed the worldwide economic system to blackmail the American taxpayers into handing them $700 billion;

    - Not prosecuting one Wall Street criminal after the largest Ponzi control fraud in the history of the world;
     
    - Cameras and listening devices on public transit and other public location;

    - Military exercises conducted in U.S. cities in order to condition the masses;

    - Attempts to control and censor the internet through the introduction of the SOPA bill;

    - The use of tragic mass murders by mentally defective young men on psychotropic drugs to disregard the 2nd Amendment and disarm American citizens;

    - TSA thugs molesting little old ladies and young children to desensitize citizens to gestapo like tactics and treat them like criminals;

    - Government partnering with Facebook, Apple and other corporate entities to monitor, censor, and report the activities of citizens to the authorities;

    - The use of public schools to teach children what to think rather than how to think. Thought control is vital to an agenda of keeping the masses fearful and pliable;

    - Government agencies (FBI, ATF) creating terrorist plots, luring young dupes into the plots, providing fake explosives, and then announcing with great fanfare they have foiled a terrorist plot;

    - “See something, Say something” government media campaign designed to make citizens paranoid and fearful.

    (as put together by James Quinn)

    What was the answer of our rebellious Roger to all these nice initiatives so far? In fact, not much more than - “we need to re-elect those who did it.”

    Hermione Granger once said addressing Mr. Potter and his cohort: “We could all have been killed - or worse, expelled” and was commented upon: “She really needs to sort out her priorities.” Are the situations in Israel and Turkey serious? Yes, they are. Do they deserve involvement? Yes, they do.  But, taking into account the list above, does it make a lot of sense to consider them the main priorities? It’s doubtful. And if any such things happen to substitute any other meaningful social activities of someone who poses as a maverick altogether in this critical situation that we have today, then it’s definitely something deeply wrong with this rebellion. And this rebel.


  • @stray dog
     "And if any such things happen to substitute any other meaningful social
    activities of someone who poses as a maverick altogether in this
    critical situation that we have today..." would you mind to explain this in other words, i coudn´t get it.....

    but as you rightly say: there is something seriously wrong with the author of "perfect sence". i mean one could go on with asking for what has happened to the composer of "ca ira"which is not that old yet. or what has changed in his mind over he years after the release of animals or the wall? or hasn´t happened there anything at all? after all, has he always been that "dead hypocrite" and never had any character of a rebel against any establishment except the music industry maybe?

    if we unfold those questions, we come to the psycological points like character and other personal facts which we can assume but don´t know. the question of vanity, pride, self reflections as a prominent person and so on. otherwise, to be honest, you are busy with that as well if you want or not.

    to say it shortly,in my view, people never really change fundamenty ,exceptions excluded. so if roger himself ever had been rebellious, i mean, really rebellious, he quite shure still would it be now. so the contents of his works, which were rather helpful, for myself for instance, in this case come from a person who didn´t mean it as seriously as i took it..... what a crazy thing!
  • StrayDogStrayDog June 2013
    What I mean is that first things first. Say, if you state that crime is the most important problem and observe the fat cat Al Capone and his gang standing right in front of you and a sorry hungry pickpocket somewhere, you deal with Al Capone. Otherwise you’re a fake. Which is particularly applicable when the situation is critical (as we evidently have today), and those criminals, if they are left alone, will inevitably bring upon an overall disaster shortly. In this case it’s worse than “fake”. Because you do not say things like: “OK, the chief of Prague Gestapo is definitely evil, but let’s still “re-elect” Himmler - he is "basically a good human being” and determined to put his Department in order”. That’s not fake, that’s insane.

    By the way, what Roger seems to fail to understand is that, despite the “formidable contents of his wallet”, he is rather in one boat with the masses as far as this situation we are talking about here is concerned. And what he is doing is flushing his massive opportunities, which he could use to try to actually do something about it, down the toilet. This toilet is placed in a very big nice cabin. But this cabin is one of those on the Titanic.

    (I have a couple of things to do now, but I’ll try to get back to this point as soon as possible. Unfortunately, it’s not quite clear if we have all time in the world at the moment.)


  • ." This toilet is placed in a very big nice cabin. But this cabin is one of those on Titanic"....

    ...which already is in an advanced state of sinking.
  • StrayDogStrayDog June 2013
    Pretty much so. It should also be said that it doesn’t really matter here whether Roger is a genuine rebel, or yet another self-serving clown who happened to have some musical and lyrical abilities and properly used them to successfully sell his quasi-rebellious attitude. Water is still water. And if Roger is not one of THEM literally - and I do not believe that everything is THAT bad - then THEY are highly unlikely to have booked a place in their life boats for him. So Mr. Waters is going under water with everybody else.

    And it’s going to happen here, not anywhere far away. It’s enough to get oneself acquainted with any serious analysis of the current state of things coming from an economic standpoint and independent sources, not Establishment pundits and shills, to clearly realize where we are and going to. And when this global Ponzi scheme that goes for the world financial system collapses and a house of cards that goes for US economy falls apart, disastrous social consequences will inundate Western landscapes. It won’t be possible to place them solely on someone else again through another series of “humanitarian” bombings. It won’t be just Afghan, Iraqi, Pakistani, Libyan, Somali, Yemeni or Palestinian, for that matter, or any other men, women and children thousands miles from home - someone who Roger bothers to occasionally care for in the course of his country-club-style rebellion. It will be us. And probably himself.

    If Roger thinks that he will be able to buy that seat in the boat with his money, I wouldn’t be so sure. It’s a pretty long story and should hardly be unfolded here and now, but in two words - if you are not one of those nice people literally, this is not likely to happen. Not to mention the fact that it would be, as Butthead would put it, a “pretty disgusting” thing in itself, especially as far as someone who delivers all those lofty declarations during one’s concerts and on one’s site is concerned.

    So what Roger should do is to re-read “1984”. Then watch “Melancholia” mentioned somewhere. And then undertake a good meditation picturing himself as Winston Smith and Claire. Social tragedy is horrible. Existential one is even worse. They may well be somewhat connected. And your cosy walls, Roger, won’t provide you with any protection in either case.


  • StrayDogStrayDog June 2013
    Regarding our failure to learn from the past mentioned in my latest post in the other thread. I would like to offer some more excerpts from Arthur Silber - one of the most renowned left-libertarian scholars/writers today. Here are several ones from his article “Accomplices To Murder”. I do strongly recommend Roger and everybody else to get themselves familiar with this material as well as other works written by this author.

                                                                             *****

    The Lesson of History

    The twentieth century saw a series of conflicts and catastrophes that are terrifying to contemplate. Yet as I have remarked, as awful as the slaughter and devastation were, what sometimes almost seems worse to me is that it appears we have learned nothing at all.

    Over six years ago, on September 30, 2006, I wrote "Thus the World Was Lost" after the passage of the Military Commissions Act. Most people have already forgotten that Act; it is almost never mentioned now. We have learned nothing, and we remember nothing. After discussing that Act and its meaning, I noted: "People often exhibit a visceral rejection of comparisons of our dire predicament to the rise of Nazi Germany." I addressed that rejection in the earlier article.

    I then offered some excerpts from Milton Mayer's illuminating and frightening book “They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45”. I will repeat them now. I will not belabour the parallels, and I leave you free to draw what conclusions you will.

    “When men who understand what is happening--the motion, that is, of history, not the reports of single events or developments--when such men do not object or protest, men who do not understand cannot be expected to. How many men would you say understand--in this sense--in America? And when, as the motion of history accelerates and those who don't understand are crazed by fear, as our people were, and made into a great 'patriotic' mob, will they understand then, when they did not before?

    We learned here--I say this freely--to give up trying to make them understand after, oh, the end of 1938, after the night of the synagogue burning and the things that followed it. Even before the war began, men who were teachers, men whose faith in teaching was their whole faith, gave up, seeing that there was no comprehension, no capacity left for comprehension, and the thing must go its course, taking first its victims, then its architects, and then the rest of us to destruction.”

    A few pages later, Mayer tells the story of a chemical engineer, who brought Mayer “even closer to the heart of the matter…”:

    “The world was lost one day in 1935, here in Germany. It was I who lost it, and I will tell you how. I was employed in a defence plant. That was the year of the National Defence Law, the law of ‘total conscription’. Under the law I was required to take the oath of fidelity. I said I would not; I opposed it in conscience. I was given twenty-four hours to ‘think it over’. In those twenty-four hours I lost the world. There I was, in 1935, a perfect example of the kind of person who, with all his advantages in birth, in education, and in position, rules (or might easily rule) in any country. If I had refused to take the oath in 1935, it would have meant that thousands and thousands like me, all over Germany, were refusing to take it. Their refusal would have heartened millions. Thus the regime would have been overthrown, or, indeed, would never have come to power in the first place. The fact that I was not prepared to resist, in 1935, meant that all the thousands, hundreds of thousands, like me in Germany were also unprepared, and each one of these hundreds of thousands was, like me, a man of great influence or of great potential influence. Thus the world was lost. If my faith had been strong enough in 1935, I could have prevented the whole evil.”


                                                                            *****

    Talking about such a person “with all his advantages in position and education” who is supposed to understand “what is happening - the motion of history” - it sounds pretty much like Roger, doesn’t it? So isn’t it time to take a good look around and then start to really tell the truth at last? And actually do something about it? Because if you so painfully fail to deliver, Roger, how others can be expected to?


  • CorneliusCornelius June 2013
    bump
  • @stray dog

    yes, this is precicely the points i can´s stop thinking about. you really took a very suitable background for, call it , the next level of what we are talking here. firstly( what has been enfolded already several times): roger´s "advantages in position and education", and the second one which also is a matter of responsibilty( whichs nature automatically is linked with one´s individual options): what you quiet correctly bring into here by this comparison are the possible consequences of roger´s failure in telling THE WHOLE TRUTH and acting in a concrete and serios way.



  • StrayDogStrayDog June 2013
    @waveproject

    Just read your email - those were trifles, one day stuff. But thanks.

    As for your question - I’m not sure if I quite get it. Care to elaborate?

  • i will better tell you about that by e mail
  • StrayDogStrayDog August 2013
    Western powers are after another war - or rather another butchery of defenseless people from a safe distance - in pursuit of their special interests based on another pack of lies (to say that “the chemical massacre” in a big city caused 355 victims (according to the Doctors Without Borders group) is the same thing as to say: “OK, we’ve dropped a nuclear bomb on residential areas: 4 were killed, 10 more wounded”). Even the British Parliament has somehow managed to step away from this another crime in progress and voted against endorsing military action. While the White House, responding to the vote, said (consider the choice of words): “A decision on a possible military strike against Syria will be guided by America’s best interests”.

    And what about our peacemaker Roger? Not a word from him. Not a tiny little note. Or an open letter. Or anything. Not to my knowledge at least.

    Keep it up, Roger. And you’ll get your Nobel Peace Prize soon. Sharing it with Obomber.

     
  • waveprojectwaveproject August 2013
    hey stray dog, didn´t you notice? roger is rather busy with writing open letters and comments on his fb site.
    don´t you think we have to respect his special engagement of tearing down that special wall?

    what the f... does it matter what´s going on in the rest of that shitty world if our "peacemaker"can demonstrate his point of view by just one act:

    SIGNING A special STAR ON A BIG PIG ?!

    there are many curious ways to get curious attention in a curious world, roger and certainly you have overtaken u2 with their claw but be sure they are already brainstorming for another amazing idea to lull the masses to sleep.but what am i chatting-

    COMPETITION OF VANITIES ARE THE BASIS OF ROCKMUSIC
  • StrayDogStrayDog September 2013
    Since Roger still doesn’t seem to consider the situation with Syria, where Western powers are preparing to unleash another war against another sovereign state with grave implications for the rest of the world while continuing to follow the pattern of a completely deranged murderous psychopath, something worthy of his time and attention, let’s give a chance to Mr. Paul Craig Roberts to say a couple of words for him. I should mention that I cannot fully agree with some points, stated in his articles on the subject, and plainly disagree with some other ones, but it’s certainly a very refreshing reading, especially if compared to the mainstream media’s constant lies and propaganda or Mr. Waters’ foolish (at best) clownery. As Wittgenstein might put it: “If only one person reads it and does so with understanding, I will consider my mission completed”. Here is one article:

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/08/26/syria-another-western-war-crime-in-the-making-paul-craig-roberts/

    A number of other ones regarding this issue are also available on the same site.


  • StrayDogStrayDog September 2013
    Here is also a "fascinating and somewhat sobering" interview given by Mr. Roberts to British "The Mind Renewed" (a podcast presented by Julian Charles, an independent Christian thinker) on a variety of key issues:

     


    One guy is spot-on in his comment on this interview on YouTube:

    "Thank you Dr. Paul Roberts for telling the truth. However seeing that
    only over 6000 people have watched this post whereas millions watch
    Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber makes me feel that mankind is hopeless."

    Just several months ago I had this folly of thinking that Roger and his audience were not to be named among those just mentioned.


  • waveprojectwaveproject September 2013
    this is another wel shown overlook of the situation in north africa:

    http://www.filmsforaction.org/news/us_planned_syrian_civilian_catastrophe_since_2007/
  • StrayDogStrayDog September 2013
    With the exception of the fact that we are rather talking about Western Asia at the moment (North Africa being, however, the place where Western powers committed their most recent Nuremberg level crime - which also passed totally unnoticed by Roger), yes, it seems to be a pretty well-documented piece. But it's hard to look, listen, think, understand, let alone act if one permanently maintains this kind of posture:

     

    image


  • waveprojectwaveproject September 2013
    it´s an operation and we both more or less know the background. why most of the people keep influenced by the main media, we have also figured out several times. but finally and fortunately there are people who watch the whole scene and understand what´s going on and share informations. so you have the choice to join them. or not.those who prefere to keep the position of the picture above make their choice as well.
  • StrayDogStrayDog September 2013
    I "more or less" realize that I am basically talking to the wind. And "the wind doesn't hear". Hence that quasi-quote from Wittgenstein. But when I have spare moments, I guess, it's still better than to simply sleep on my paws. By the way, maybe I'm just prone to idiotic optimism by nature, but the vote mentioned above cheered me a bit. At least, it doesn't quite fit in with my morbid analysis made in the article (if you read it).

    However, I didn't miss my street workout session today - getting prepared for the "operation" anyway.
    Hopefully, rather after the fashion of Kyle Reese than Travis Bickle :)


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